This is very important topic to raise to the public to have a discussion. I know that our society tends to shy away from heavy topics such as rape, crime and assault. But awareness and change happens, when we can discuss openly and move towards change. The fact that not a lot of people even heard about this incident, is even more reason why this is important.
I believe that the world is good and full of good people. The world also contains bad people who contribute to terrible crimes such as the one I refer to in the video above. So I don’t think the world is going to shitz, nor is men to blame here. Because that’s not the root, nor is that an active way of dealing with this.
In the day in age of filming ‘people’s misery’ as entertainment, are teens getting desensitized on what’s real crime and pain? The implications? Because the unsympathetic behavior and lack of realization on how detrimental the situation is as it was taking place.
I think a big component of this stems from parenting today. Are kids and teens not taught enough respect, values and citizen responsibility as the generation before?? Doesn’t matter how busy parents are, it’s how they spend their time with their kids. I know my parents were gone alot due to working but when they were home, they laid down the law. It was very clear that discipline and morals were distilled into each and every one of my siblings. Meaning that, if I was there at the incident, I would recognize it was completely wrong and I would do something about it! So this is the wide lens view.
That’s why it is extremely important to me to help our current generation to be healthier, more spiritualized and introspective so that we’ll have happier and balanced generations to come.
Now, I know that it ultimately boils down to individualist decisions and actions. We need to do something. There needs to be awareness and understanding of why this is taking place. How do we reduce this from happening? Especially the young individuals involved, whether they did the actual crime or was one of the witness who stood and took photos/videos of what was going on!
V’stars, what do you think we should do to reduce this from happening?
Females, always roll with at least one trusted female friend so you take care of each other.
Males, no girl deserves to be mistreated or physically assaulted. No one. How can we get more people to be responsible citizens to intervene when things like this go down? How do we help as many males as possible to respect women?
I would love your thoughts.
Hey Vanae:
First off I’d like to say I empathize with how you feel. To your question, I’d have to say that I think people in general have forgotten what it means to be responsible. I grew up in Richmond, CA, and luckily through accelerated programs and my folks knowing the right people in district, I didn’t have to go to Richmond High.
It’s easy in today’s society to place blame on extenuating circumstances for our misfortunes. I feel that this is the prime reason how people justify their actions when people know what is being done is wrong. My opinion on this particular matter was that the people who were raping, beating, etc. felt they were justified because it’s not their responsibility to ensure that this poor girl was okay; in essence it was their justification that it was the girl’s fault for being drunk. As for the bystanders, I don’t know if their lack of action was out of fear or just they felt they weren’t responsible for what was going on.
I’m a (Zen) Buddhist. There’s a book by a monk named Dogen who wrote this large tome called Shobogenzo. There are two points that this incident made me recall. The first was that true compassionate acts are like when you’re asleep and you adjust your pillow to cradle your neck. I took this to mean two things: 1) That true compassionate acts go unnoticed. 2) True compassion originates from one’s need to do something. The second point that it made me recall was that there is no you and me; there is just “is.” What I took this to mean was that life is one giant contradiction. Even though we think we possess these experiences, emotions, and travels that we deem “our life,” our life is truly one all incorporating event that each person around us (known as friends or just “that guy/gal”) play an intricate role in what life really consists of. When you allow someone on the street to get mugged, beaten, raped, even though it isn’t your physical manifestation that is directly going through this “evil,” you are still going to feel the effects (aka: true karma). Proof of that is the shared disgust we feel for this event that took place; no one is better off from experiencing this rape.
As for overall respect for women, I have to agree with you that men don’t know what respect for women is. I’ll take it a step further and say, that men and women don’t know how to respect each other. The procuring symptom, again in my opinion, is that we as people have come to take all components in life for granted. We take the time we have with family for granted, the time we share with friends for granted, and the passing of everyday for granted. Granted in my definition, is assuming that the variables of what we are living in now, are constants and unchanging. This just isn’t the case. At our age, we have the illusion that we are invincible; that growing old is far off. I’m guilty of always procrastinating the everyday tasks in my life assuming I will have the forthcoming moment to do it then. Truth of the matter is that there is no guarantee that next moment will come.
I apologize that my response was so long. I just want to thank you (again) because I take a lot of enjoyment in viewing your Youtube videos and coming on Vanae.com. It makes me feel less weird for always exploring life.
Steve, Great post and I like the way you used your knowledge of Buddhism to explore this topic. Yes, I agree that men and women need to respect each other for sure. Life is a two way street and we only get one chance to get it right most times.
You’re post was awesome!! It wasn’t too long at all!! It was a very intelligent & compassionate post!! Never feel weird to always explore life, and know that there are people out there like me who constantly explore life as well, and who share all of your sentiments!!
Great post Steve Nam!!
- Alice LSD
The sad thing is I have heard so many stories like this they don’t really phase me. Most stories I hear are about men raping women, but I also hear almost as many stories about men raping men. To a lesser degree (much less), I have heard 2 stories about women raping men (one drugged him first and the other one was about 3 women who kidnapped and tied up some guy – it was pretty bizarre) and another incident where a 14 year old girl was held at knife point and raped by her 20 year old girlfriend.
I think rape is more about humiliation and control than sex (though that’s obviously part of it). That’s probably why they were asking people to join in and people were taking pictures and videos. So rapists might be motivated by anger, frustration and shame.
Some people are bad, some people are good, most people just go along with the crowd. Talking about it and educating will probably make more people willing to intervene. Other than that, the easiest way to prevent rape is to avoid that kind of situation and be careful around people you don’t trust.
On the bright side, rape is less acceptable today than ever before (though still a problem).
Mmm. OK. It’s hard to fit my thoughts into this response, yet I do disagree on several of the points you have. You attack the culprits without considering the conditions and situations that happen within the time. It is essential to know what has happened prior to such an assault. I find it very unfair that you simply think that several men are absolutely crazy for gang-raping a female. At first glance, this situation is definitely a red-flag. Let us take a breath and look deeper.
Why did this happen?
Several factors:
1) The female could be at the wrong place.
2) The male could be inherently hostile.
3) The female could have done something wrong.
4) The male could be on drugs or alcohol.
5) The female could be on drugs or alcohol.
6) The male could be hormonal.
7) The female could be prompting such an attack.
Most times when a female gets my attention and I’m thinking – “She’s pretty.”
She has done something to get my attention.
Take for example, a female simply stands in a crowd. She does nothing but wait for a bus. Will she stand out? No.
Will the attacker be prompted to attack? No.
There is no motive, no enticements, nothing.
What I’m trying to say – most men are acceptable. Some are rotten eggs, I understand.
But please, don’t forget the other factor – females.
One action will cause another action.
Getting drunk allows the defenses to fall. Getting drunk in a dangerous place – even more dangerous. Getting drunk in a dangerous place and looking ridiculously hot – “Asking for it.”
The truth is, however, you can’t stop this so-called shit. I mean, we would like for it to go away, will it ever? No. The place an individual grew up in can largely determine his beliefs. His beliefs can determine how he acts. There will always be societies.
But in a sense, it’s a good thing. Call me crazy, I think everything is good.
It’s what makes the world go round. It’s what makes this world interesting.
And most of all, it’s what allows individuals, such as yourself, to exist.
Without these cruel intentions, there could never be good intentions. If a killer killed off all the criminals, he would be the criminal for killing people.
Please don’t forget that this is not solely for the male sex to bear upon his shoulders. There is a lot of factors that contribute. No matter what situation, gang-raping happens for a reason.
And this very thing – please don’t stop it.
Without acts of crime, this world wouldn’t spin as it does. This world might achieve what you call world peace, but is it really worth it? In a world partially filled with capitalists, I doubt that will ever happen.
I hope you take wisdom in deciding how to interpret my words. Iconoclastic as I am, I prefer to be this way. It is my way of thinking.
i STRONGLY disagree with this.
you should really research and read up on the background of this incident. she was with someone she knew then got drunk and this all happened. doesn’t matter,
NO ONE deserves to be raped, brutally beaten up like that.
the mentality of ‘she probably deserved it’ or ‘she was asking for it’ just contributes to why these crimes happen in the? first place.
it’s immoral. and what if it was your sister or cousin who got a lil too drunk and went through this?? we can’t always avoid the wrong place, wrong time.
this crime of rape, assault, participating in the cheering on or getting other people to join the rape is inhumane and savaging.
It sure is savage.
I’m just saying that there are choices in everyday life that DETERMINE what happens next. If I forget to comb my hair and walk outside – there’s a producer looking for the next male actor for Macbeth – I just missed my chance right there.
If she had decided against being drunk and instead decided to stay where people were sober, there would be a greater chance she would be unaffected.
There is something that always happens to trigger another thing. I’m glad you replied to my post, by the way!
If something bad happens to me, something good happens later on to equate it. Karma is a rough-hand description of it. (Please reply and discuss why Karma doesn’t work.)
I’m not saying you aren’t allowed to have your own opinion, but please.
You’re saying the girl should not have been drinking, and this wouldn’t have happened. I say bullshit. This could’ve happened to her whether she had been drinking or not. And so what if she was drinking? Are people not allowed to enjoy themselves anymore without the risk of being raped?
This girl did not ask for this to happen to her. I don’t care if she was dressed like the sluttiest slut out there, and falling over herself drunk. She still did not ask for this to happen to her.
These men need to learn some fucking self control. You want to blame this on the girls who dress slutty and whatnot…I say that’s bullshit.
Maybe the way she was acting did tempt these guys into this kind of behavior, maybe not. Even so, have the men in our society lost all sense of self control and respect for women?
I’ve been raped on three separate occasions, in three entirely different scenarios. You think I asked for those things to happen to me? FUCK NO! I was in the wrong place at the wrong time, and did nothing to “ask for it”.
Your way of thinking disgusts me.
You say my way of thinking is atrocious, yet do you suppose I care?
Please reorganize your thoughts before you talk to me, and therefore I can actually have an intelligent discussion.
First, you point out that this would have happened either way. Do you think that following someone and getting drunk would allow your chances to rape still stay up? You have no idea what might happen and your lack of ability to judge fails. Therefore, it is possible to say that one will not stay in the safer areas to wait for her dad while being drunk and following someone else.
Do you suppose I care for the way you think? You’re a hedonist. You want to have fun without having the chances of being raped. There is a point to being stupid and smart, please know the difference.
The fact that you see men as dogs is itself dogmatic and I completely feel you are incompetent to even raise an argument against me.
In my final words, I will show no lack of restraint as to show my emotions. You are a stubborn little child who does not understand the concept of taking other factors into account. Do you think a person who killed another is automatically a murderous criminal? What if it was out of self-defense? Bigot.
I may not word things as poetically as you, sir. And that seems to be the only thing in your argument that would make any sense to someone with a HEART. You have to belittle everyone who doesn’t agree with you, and you think that shows maturity?
You make a point to ask if a person killing another in self-defense is automatically a murderous criminal. No. Of course not. But what the fuck did this girl do to these guys that they’d have to “defend” themselves by raping her?
Your words actually sound like you think nothing bad happened here. And that’s kind of the point Vanae was trying to make:
“are teens getting desensitized on what’s real crime and pain? The implications? Because the unsympathetic behavior and lack of realization on how detrimental the situation is as it was taking place, makes me feel that this was seen as a joke.”
And I never said I see men as dogs. There are a lot of good guys out there. There are a lot of dogs as well. I don’t really generalize men into either category, because every individual is different. But THOSE guys that raped this girl were definitely dogs. That’s actually a good word to describe them because they were really acting like animals with no self-control. You said join the crowd or be the victim? That’s cowardice.
And I know you won’t take this argument seriously, because as I said before, I don’t word things as poetically as you. I may not be as well educated as you. And you’re obviously stubborn on your way of thinking and refuse to be wrong. You’ll dissect every little bit of each response and twist it around for it to make sense in your fucked up mind.
All I can say, is watch out for this guy on the streets, ladies. He’s obviously not a gentleman in any way, shape or form.
You may look at my post to Vanae. I do not try to belittle her. The reason? She is capable of making an argument that shows no emotion.
I disagree that my words are poetic.
The fact that you feel like you can call a certain group of people “dogs” shows your insecurity and your need to sit at the top. Unfortunately, it is people like you who will grow up and become bitter. Because you cannot see others in a different light.
Cowardice – lets take things into account. It’s not smart to commit a crime, but it’s worse to interfere with one. People don’t rat out others. Do you know what happens to people that do that? At least be some 10 miles (exaggeration) away from these gang-rapists before you call the police, because who knows what they’ll do if they catch you, am I right?
If you can do one thing in your argument – stop comparing things that you can’t compare.
One more thing, you don’t need to be a Harvard graduate or even someone with an educated mind to take things into a different perspective. That’s common sense.
I am not as politically correct as Vanae, so here goes…
What the fuck is that???
1) female at the wrong place??
-what the heck is a wrong place? she was next to the high school!!!!She was lured in by a friend!
2)1 male can be a hostile unstable mother fucker, but 20 people??
3)Great, do something wrong…maybe you should get gangraped and beaten for 2 hours because you said this.
4)5) 20 people all lost control eh?
6)that’s an excuse fit for saudi arabia… cover up women, men can have boners and rape you because your toes are uncovered!
7)yeah she prompted all right, she went with her supposed friend for a party…
the remaining excuses are crazy??? being pretty? sexy? wtf??? I wonder do you do when you go to the beach and see women in bikinis, do you start raping them one by one?
you’re excuses are just nuts, its like saying its the victims fault for being killed because was walking on the street that happen to be a frequented by a psycho serial killer.
great…
I’m going to agree with Wissam on all points. including the politocally incorrect part. these fucking barbarians should be tried convicted and publicly castrated with a red hot strand of piano wire. Then they should be trrown in Gitmo because these animals are terrorists. That’s my story and I’m sticking to it.
1) Wrong place -Think about the time. There is no security guards around, are you joking with me?
2) Like I said – Dark place, don’t go there. 20 people, join the crowd or be the victim. Learn social standards.
3) Do something wrong? You take this as a cause and effect, learn to have a more complex mind. It was night time. Dangerous folks are out and about. Didn’t you learn as a kid?
4)5) It’s possible.
6) Teen males. Think about it. I won’t discuss further. It is evident.
7) You can’t compare a dark place to a beach full of people. If she had stayed where it was illuminated and more friends were around, do you think she would be gang-raped by 20 people.
Think sir, and you will see.
seems you raped someone before and you are just making excuses for yourself.
You make it to seem as everything is fine, part of social standards, that the girl should think and barely blaming the fuckers.
So I guess you are just a troll, wanting to piss people off.
Good Luck in your life Mr Troll and Keep your Anus safe according to your social standards…
So you say I raped someone? Are you willing to accuse me and go to court with this matter?
Agreed Wissam. Total TROLL.
I’m glad I’m not alone in thinking this.
You really think he wants to take you to court? You’re proving his point of you being a troll by trying to provoke him further.
This will be my last reply to any of your posts.
Well that’s good. Have someone else fight your battles for you.
hmmm… a cosality arguement followed by the laws and evolution of human nature. Good arguement, joseph lin.
such a literal view needs a literal counter arguement to go with it. yes, human history is filled with rapes. many of these can be found in wars where a victor’s soldiers would rape the women of the defeated place.
However with the development of peace, there can be no place for rape, why? is it coz it’s morally wrong? or coz god says it is wrong? (ps I am actually aethiest so this arguement would not be valied for me)… No it’s not, it’s because we as a species have survived to be a social group and as a social species we have evolved to have emotions based on outside variables even those which are in no way associated with said person. It has no place in society because the vast and stronger side of society says it has no place there.
the above points are valied but I feel that this point pull the rug from under your arguement the best.
Yo! Thanks for the nice comment. I appreciate it. You do forget, however, the world fluctuates. If you think about a diagonal line going up — that would be your interpretation in this world view you explained to me (sorry if i misread your intentions, it is a bit short to pull from). As a social group, things would work well. Marx’s idea. And perhaps even socialism. Believe me, I would like to see peace in this world. Perhaps unachievable because people vary. You can’t stop that from happening, that would be tyranny. There world we live in today, it wouldn’t be exciting if we knew we could simply live and die and everyday would be the same.
You are completely misinformed if you think that a woman ever “asks” for it. Do you realise that the vast majority of rapes are committed by those that are CLOSE to their victim, aka date rapes, boyfriend/husband rapes?
You say “Getting drunk in a dangerous place and looking ridiculously hot – “Asking for it.””
Is that an irresponsible way to behave? Yes. Is it something a fifteen year old child should have the emotional or logical skills to properly cope with or understand the risk of, as this poor girl obviously DID NOT? No. How DARE you blame a minor who made a poor decision! She’s an underaged CHILD! I can’t count the mistakes I made as a teenager they were so many – but that is part of growing up. NOBODY deserves this.
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Here’s two real rape anecdotes, by the way, if you can open your mind to them:
When I was 11 or 12, my parents invited some people my father worked with to stay with us for a week of the summer at a beach house. It was a married couple, and their 19 year old son who took a liking to me. I was flattered, and even was kissed by him a couple of times! I thought I was SO mature that a 19 year old boy liked me.
One afternoon I was watching a movie on the sofa in my family’s house with him when everyone else was outside on the water. He assaulted me, pulling my shirt off and getting my jean shorts mostly off, and starting to rip my bra off. OUT OF NOWHERE. I punched him (not very hard) in the face and he yelled and I ran into a bathroom downstairs and hid behind a door while he stormed after me after he recovered from the initial shock of me hitting him. He didn’t find me. I didn’t tell my parents for two years out of shame.
Did I invite this from him by kissing him those couple times? I was a kid. This guy was clearly a predator. In your worldview, I invited this. Yet every single professional would say that I was a victim in this scenario. Can you REALLY not see that?
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Second Anecdote:
I was raped by a boyfriend I had been with for 8 months (who had NO prior criminal history) while both he and I were completely sober. We were alone in my house for the evening, as we had been MANY times before.
Circumstances: close to bedtime, we were kissing, and after 10 or so minutes I wanted to go to sleep and snuggled up to him and told him I was going to sleep. He got angry with me (to this day I’m not sure why – plenty of times we’d gone to bed without sex after kissing, both at his and my decisions, depending on overall energy level and mood), and he forced me into sex.
I gave in after struggling and crying because he was much bigger than me, and physically overpowered me. I was terrified, I’d never seen that side of him. I ended our relationship straight after it happened and I haven’t spoken to him since. Did I ask for that?
What can “we” do? Nothing. Our “civil society” has protocal for such situations.
Sincere empathy goes out to victim. I hope she finds mental & sexual health. Unfortunately, I have to believe that this will always be an issue for her, in her life. I know that there will only be certain types of people she will be able to have healthy interaction with.
To loosely take Joseph Lin’s perspective; If the victim works through this, she will be a very strong person. That statement isn’t to dismiss the tragedy of lost innocence; but to say, all is not lost.
As far as: why? Groups form, conform, & “shun”. It is a constant occurence in society.
It has been reported that this girl didn’t fit in. Chances are she was somehow more exceptional than most of her peers.
It seems like this rape was a form of ascertion.
Junior high & High school teens constantly deal with the re-enforcement of having to be the sub-ordinate.
I would be willing to guess that the victim did not have issues with being shunned, & probably gave no authority to her supposed superior peers, educators, & administrators.
With the amount of people involved, I would also guess that this was voluntarily, & involuntarily pre-meditated.
Here’s a question: How many time haves we seen this happen, & why are we still shocked? The Duke LaCrosse Team rape, & the female teacher/14 year old student statutory rape incidences are less than a few years old.
I am shocked that this happened in this age group. I am not surprised to find out some older teens were involved.
Anyway, guess what people! We live in a society that supports, & cheers primal, & carnal inclanation. It trickles down, & has a cause & effect.
Thanks for taking my perspective and analyzing it. Helps that someone is able to critically think.
This is wrong, just plan wrong.
1.people saw this happening and didn’t even call the police? that sounds just horable here a girl is crying for help and no one would help her. they just walked by and did nothing.im reading this and can’t believe it
2.every year i see new high school students becoming less and less mature and as this happens the entire high school does to, because there afraid. afired of being different this immaturity means they don’t think about how others feel.
There is not much we really can do, we live in a world where people are just fucked up in the head and weather we like it or not its just the place we live in.
Even though i find it rude that the friend would do something so stupid to a friend, where in the world have peoples morals and respect gone!!!!!
There have always been bad people in the world. I think it does help to talk about these things and bring them out in the open so people can see it. The other thing is we can urge people to make better choices (not drinking so much) so that they are more able to resist crime.
for sure if she’s my baby sister they’ll need the bullet proof vests they are now wearing.
what can we do?
instill thoughtful values in boys before they turn into thugs.
we all have responsibilty. we also need rappers, and korn like bands speak up.
http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/news/stories.nsf/illinoisnews/story/60D37B6EC5FF4711862576320011605B?OpenDocument
Look at the faces of the people on this school bus, they don’t care. Bullies, the crowd mentality, morals, listen to radical rap, sexist, racist, straight out bully thug shit people are blasting in there ears all day long. Ladies, get a stun gun or pepper spray or a pistol. It is very rare for someone to help when the “mob” mentality is happening. Some people only understand violence. To stop that incident of the rape you would have had to either shoot a gun off or hurt someone bad or have the police show up then the people would scatter like the cowards they are.Its a tough world not all roses and flowers unfortunatley. I hate to hear of this shit. Societies morals are fucked up. Stay strong and keep your awareness up. There are nice people around, try to stick with them.
when you go to that link, check out the video of the nice students on the bus. Alone, weak, attacked by a cowardly mob, no one helped. Just like the rape Vanae talked about. This is the state of our society. Lets try and do what we can to change this. Sometimes it seems people are like sheep, take a stand, do what you can do. Get a personal air horn. Have courage, if you see a woman, child, older person or just someone weaker being taken advantage of… do something.
Very sad. I’ve gotten punched a few times in my life just trying to stop a guy from verbally abusing his girlfriend in public; I cannot even grasp the concept of belittling, humiliating, manipulating, or using any kind of force or coercion on a woman for any goal. I’m not sure a lot can be done to prevent these events from happening. It’s troubling to not see a bystander intervene, but I don’t believe that is a reflection on the “state of our society.” Groups of young men (such as fraternities) can receive education so they can report and turn in people who use date rape drugs, for example, but rape occurs from the impoverished to the rich.
That is why you absolutely cannot say “let’s look at the context. Who was she hanging out with? What mistakes did she make leading up to it?” Sure, you shouldn’t get drunk and hang out with questionable characters, but what if they are your classmates and your friends? Boss’s sexually harass and coerce their female employees into sex. It happens throughout all sectors of society.
I don’t know enough about it to comment on ways to lower the prevalence of rape; I do know we can to lots of things to empower women — to give them the support they need to press charges, to fight any stigma, and the mental health services they need to recover — and we can empower women in these areas BEFORE rape happens. That may not prevent it, but it will prevent some the negative impact it has on their lives and throughout our society.
There was an experiment in the 1960′s called the Milgram experiment where scientists told participants to press a button which delivered electric shocks to a person strapped to a chair (the shocks were fake of course, although the participants were not made aware of it). The majority of participants continued the shocks until the end of the experiment.
If I remember correctly, the more education a person had the more likely they were to refuse to continue even when they were told they had to. The person who stopped earlier than anyone else was an electrical engineer who had received electric shocks before and said he couldn’t continue because he knows how it feels to get shocked.
The experiment was testing people’s ability to ignore their conscience and follow orders, but I think that last bit says something about empathy. Also, apparently many of the subjects in the experiment were glad to have participated and considered it something of a life lesson. One guy even credited it to his decision to refuse to go to Vietnam after he was drafted.
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I think Vanae is right about people lacking empathy and not realizing what they’re doing when they do these things, as well as what others have said about lacking a feeling of responsibility for the situation. Maybe schools should teach kids about this stuff, I think it might help to an extent. My school’s sexual education/health class wasn’t very helpful, and didn’t really teach about rape or assault at all.
And maybe an ad campaign or convention to teach people how to deal with these things. We already have these of course, but having more can’t hurt.
This post rocks.
I agree with your post in some ways. The responsibility lies with in the home mostly. Parents need to be the first line of defense and educate their children in these matters to really make a difference.
Good point, I agree.
This is a very serious issue, and I really appreciate this post and how much everyone is willing to contribute and try to help. Some people don’t realize how important it is because it isn’t a reality in their lives. Thanks for making people aware.
Yo, I was about to read all those posts but I got bored.
Anyways, it sucks that all that went down. There are a million stories about rape out there to be read and glorified on T.V. and in magazines.
But the best thing that can be done is to educate men and women on responsible living and learning self-love. I would say lots of times that these situations come from the uneducated and the unhappy. Simple as that.
I do slightly agree with teaching people to be more responsible about drugs and alcohol. Things happen in the midst of altered behavior after too much of any substance. It doesn’t make it more right to do…but it makes it more possible. Protect yourself people.
And look, I got raped when I was a kid. I’m not trying to ride in on the feel sorry for me train because I have a pretty good way of handling my head and emotions. But it did change my life. So you have to try and put yourself in the shoes of someone having their will submitted to the anger and greed and self-hate of another human being.
It’s not cool. But there are so many ways that it could happen that it’s not your job to seek the source, but to be the healer and the educator. That’s where it starts.
Deuces.
There are several points I’d like to make and several suggestions.
first the points:
If you want to know why men would do things like that then it’s important that women know that most men wouldn’t do that so you are trying to get into the mind of a minority of men… always a tough task.
second, this is an extreme case, I’ve never heard anything like it in my life and I’d be supprised if I heard anything to this scale again. that’s not to say that I’m naive, I have heard lots of rape/abuse stories both in the news and from word of mouth and not always men abusing women, sometimes it’s the other way round and even a couple of gay and lesbian relationships where someone got abused.
thirdly, usually the idea of something like this being right will not be something that just pops into a guys head, I’m willing to bet that it started off being playful banter in a social setting which guys tossed around, adding more and more testosterone to the idea and it had been about for long enough and become serious enough for for some of the guys to think, ‘ye, actually this isn’t that bad an idea.’
now for thinking like these people and what can be done to prevent this:
If a girl is intoxicated it makes her easy to rape and reduces the chances of her remembering all the details after (especially because of the trauma) this is something that has bugged me about society in both my country and america, we both have this concept that getting blind drunk all the time is ok. it’s not, it’s a health hazard and it makes you vulnerable especially when you’re feeling invincible so the first peice of advice would be to only get drunk when you’re in a safe environment such as one of your houses or a reputable bar/club with bouncers.
second, a girl is easier to pick off or have something to slip into their drink when they’re on their own. to this end the advice should be always keep your drink with you with a thumb over the top and stay with your friends at all night (safety in numbers)
third, a girl with little or no confidence isn’t going to fight back when being raped, especially if intoxicated. so when you’re out and about, have some confidence about how you move about and if anything seems amiss, tell them a straight “NO!” and not any of this “I’m not too sure” business.
finally (and this one may get me into trouble) Trust noone! take a taxi home, make sure the taxi has a yellow plate on the back saying it’s reputable, it should come with the post code and is quite recognisable. and make sure it is pre-booked coz on a saturday night at the end of the evening, getting a taxi can be a b%£ch!
you can’t protect everyone but you can protect yourselves.
I should rephrase the last part of this… Trust noone other than your close friends.
Hello Vanae, I am also taken back by such crime these days. Who is to blame? Society as a whole is going down the wrong path that people are not in tune with reality. The issue with the 15 year old girl is an outrage to hear and painful to even imagine this happening after such an evening event.
I must say that parents have to take back their roles in families these days. Many children idolize the wrong things which seem to lead them follow others rather than lead. I think most of this behavior stems from the hold that reality TV plays in peoples lives. The fact that most of these programs show that lack of responsibility is cool and consequence for ones actions are never given. The end result is a free check to act out in a way that hurts others rather is horrifying to me.
I don’t think its a lack of respect for women at all since these things happen to many people including guys. The respect was lost way before this act took place I would believe in those who did this crime or watched.
As a child my parents put a lot of responsibility me through many different ways. I hated it sometimes but now as an adult I tell them thank you for making me a better person. Now that I see how some people act or even conduct themselves in the work place it makes feel great when I do the right thing.
Vanae, I like your posts and programs because they are genuine. I would like to hear you comment on the following link http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wInS-lslX5A. Here is just another example of people just being followers. The victim was the 3rd killed within the being of the school year.
Lastly, Thanks for your time and hope you have a nice weekend.
Lime
I believe that rapes trigger pornography in mass medias.
Lets say that 12 years old boy (or lil bit younger!) heard some times about sex in regular movie. But he doesnt know whats that all about, so he will take advantage of computer which he get last month and check on internet. He will find a porn sites. He will see a lot of brutal scenes.
And he will get a wrong idea about sex. Time will go on, he wanna do this. He will go to the party and get drunk and he will do exactly what he saw in porns: disrespect to the women, fucking hard, and using her as a toy.
Interesting is that, in China rapes are not that common. But its most populated country in the world. Why its not common? Coz pornography is prohibited there. Lets look at the statistics:
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_rap-crime-rapes
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_rap_percap-crime-rapes-per-capita
And saying that “She was asking for it” is a dumb BS. No one is asking to get hurt. Even if woman is wearing very sexy clothes doesnt mean that she wanna get raped, come on ! She just wanna be sexy, maybe feel sexy, maybe be admired etc.
Anyway guys are getting their first ideas about sex from porn movies, like gals getting their ideas about relationships from chick-flix movies.
Im feeling really sorry for her, and that what happened. It never suppose to happened
This is definitely a sensitive subject and by reading through the posts it’s touched a few raw nerves.
Firstly, no one deserves to be raped, beaten or humiliated in any type or form. I’m totally against anyone who performs these type of barbaric crimes, especially where children are concerned.
Now, in regards to being drunk at fifteen it can certainly affect your judgement quite considerably. Although this behaviour by minors is quite “Norm” these days, I still feel parents should have greater control in advising their kids not to get intoxicated as it can lead to trouble due to poor judgement.
Alcohol and drugs generally tends to bring out the worst in people if it is abused!!! These are the “Evils of Society
I would like to point out that it is a common misconception to believe that ONLY women are raped and it is ONLY committed by men.
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One in every eight rape victims were males (NCVS 2002).
About 60% of male survivors sampled, report at least one of their perpetrators to be female (Mendel, 1993).
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Just because our culture has a stereotype that is strongly reinforced (and hyped by the media) does not necessarily mean it is true.
The only way to be comfortable with being violent against another person, is to either devalue the other person until you no longer consider them human or devalue YOURSELF until you are no longer human.
Reinforcing a false dichotomy, that blames one group and victimizes another is not an effective way in persuading people to see each others as truly equal.
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Additional #’s
-Approximately 60% of boys and 80% of girls who are sexually victimized are abused by someone known to the child or the child’s family (Lieb, Quinsey, and Berliner, 1998)
About 95% of victims know their perpetrators (CCPCA, 1992)
Over two thirds of all rapes occur in someone’s home. 30.9% occur in the perpetrators’ homes, 26.6% in the victims’ homes and 10.1% in homes shared by the victim and perpetrator.(Abbey, BeShears, Sherrod and Mcauslan, 2004
I carry a gun with me every second that I am outside my home.
Although I do not feel that Mr. Lin deserves the honor of being acknowledged, I will say to you Mr. Lin, that if you were to be a participant of the act which you seem to defend with such conviction, and I were one of the “crowd” I would pray that one of my bullets find it’s way into your worthless body. This is not a threat, or an accusation: but a statement. Then you could try your twisted logic in front of the Almighty and see what he thinks.
P.S. I never claimed to be a good person, or righteous.
If everyone carried guns, criminals would think twice.
No.. Actually, I think this is a threat. You have the “if you..” and the result. Almighty? I have no God, you can’t scare me. And carrying a gun whenever you’re outside the house? You’re cool (sarcasm you idiot). And I see how you like everyone to carry guns. It seems that you support an arms race. Well — to show how idiotic you are, and narrow-minded, it will do you well to know that if everyone stopped making weapons of destruction, and utilized the funds to assist those in need, the world would be 10x as good as you imagine your world to be.
Though you probably won’t understand this. You’re a bit stupid.
P.S. You never mentioned that you carried a gun while you’re inside your home, what good does it do you when you post that for me to see? And this is not a threat – it is a question.
Hi Vanae if you are still following this case:the trial starts 11/15/2010 8:05AM Pacific time. Preliminary Hearing is on this monday where over 40 Witnesses will speak to the judge, the victim will not? be in the preliminary hearing but she will testify at the main trial. I don’t know if COurt TV will air this monday but ABC news will show this by the 6PM news
Wanna know my thoughts ?
1) Track the rapers and place them in a psychological cell to see if they aren’t ill (psychotics or something).
2) If they were conscious and kinda “healthy”, then pass to the A) point.
A) TORTURE THEM TO DEATH.
B) Sustain their life the most possible, to make them suffer months and months.
C) Organize a DAILY rape with animals like goats, horses, chickens, bulls …
D) Be creative and torture them in another funny way each hour : burning, beating, break their bones, cut one hand of a guy, and FIST HIS ASS with, then make him eat his hand, chainsaw haircut etc etc …
E) When the night comes, you shall prefer a psychological torture. This pass by audio torture, video, cut their eyelids then you can control when they sleep and when they don’t, play with them etc …
Of course, if one dies, be sure that YOU DESTROY HIS SOUL FOREVER by letting all kind of animals rape his dirty body at the moment when he passes out, while you’re burning him, drowning him and using chainsaw on his penis.
And all of that is SOFT